Agenda and minutes

To receive any announcements on procedural matters.

The Chairman opened the meeting, introduced Committee members and officers in attendance, and outlined procedural matters of the meeting.

Apologies for absence as reported at the meeting.

Apologies for absence were received from Councillor Warne.

To receive any declarations of interest by Members in items on the agenda.

For any advice on declarations of interest, please contact the Monitoring Officer.

No declarations of interest were received.

To note any visiting Members or members of the public wishing to speak, of which due notice has been given in accordance with Council Procedure Rule 18 or 19, and which item(s) they wish to speak on. 

No notifications of any visiting members wishing to speak had been received.

To approve the minutes of the previous meeting as a correct record.  The only issue relating to the minutes that can be discussed is their accuracy. 

No amendments were proposed.

RESOLVED – That the minutes of the Audit and Governance Committee dated 16 September 2021 be approved as a correct record.

To consider and decide on the recommendations set out in the associated report.

Lee Colyer, Director of Finance, Policy and Development introduced the report set out in the agenda and the Risk Owner, Gary Stevenson.

Gary Stevenson, Head of Housing, Health and Environment then presented key considerations within the report regarding contract management and delivery which included:

-       The risk covered 3 of the Council’s large contracted services, leisure centres, grounds maintenance and waste.

-       The grounds maintenance and leisure contracts were let some time ago and included some very good financial terms. 

-       However it should be noted that regardless of potential changes due to the impact of Covid or changes to the specification, when the Council next went out to tender the cost of these services would be significantly higher. 

-       In the longer term the Council would not be able to afford these services without changes to the specification.

-       Council had agreed a 5 year extension to the Fusion contract which included the reinstatement of the management fee.

-       Options for the grounds maintenance contract were currently being considered.

-       The current waste contract ran to March 2027 but there was recognition that the cost of this service was increasing. 

-       The Council had set up a number of mitigation measures (including regular meetings, and performance checks) with resources in place to monitor these services.

-       Issues with the waste contract had been a particular concern recently with the shortage of HGV drivers and difficulties retaining staff.  The suspension of the garden waste collection had been introduced as a mitigation measure.  This ensured the general waste collection continued uninterrupted.   The contractor was now in the process of introducing better incentives to be able to recruit, train and retain staff.

Discussion and questions from Members included the following:

-       The Council needed to balance the conditions of the contract with the need to act reasonably.  In terms of the waste contract, the garden waste element was not a separate contract.  Urbaser were undertaking the work necessary to recruit and train staff that would enable them to fulfil the requirements of their contract.  To allow Urbaser to do this, and to manage the situation in the short term,  the Council had taken the decision to suspend the garden waste collection.  Resources would be deployed to the front line services with the understanding that any remaining resources had to be deployed for the purposes of collecting garden waste.  The current arrangements would be kept under constant review with a view to reinstating the garden waste service as soon as practically possible.

-       Whilst it was always a possibility that a contractor would walk away from a contract, the Council would continue to act reasonably but take action where it was necessary to do so. 

-       It was likely that the level of risk at any time would be different for the different contracts.  It was suggested and agreed that this could be presented in a way that would show the changes/progression separately. 

-       There had been a reduction in the number of  ...  view the full minutes text for item AG40/21

To consider and decide on the recommendations set out in the associated report.

Lee Colyer, Director of Finance, Policy and Development introduced the report  set out in the agenda.

Discussion and questions from Members included the following:

-       The cost to undertake the procurement of external audit functions in-house would be prohibitive.  

-       The Council did not have the resources to draw up the specifications,  run the procurement exercise or manage the contract.  The resource to undertake this work would therefore have to be bought in.   

-       It was also unlikely that the Council would be able to attract the services of an audit firm to undertake an audit of a relatively low value.

RESOLVED – That the Committee proposes to Full Council that the Council opt into the national arrangement for the procurement of external audit.  

To consider and decide on the recommendations set out in the associated report.

Rich Clarke, Head of Audit Partnership introduced the report as set out in the agenda.

Discussion and questions from Members included the following:

-       The Amelia Scott project was subject to a separate audit review and was therefore not included within the scope of this report. If requested, details could be forwarded after the meeting.

-       The report stated that in order to complete its work, audit would be given unfettered access to officers and records.  Should audit encounter any difficulties in this regard it would be reported.  It was noted there had been no instances of this at TWBC.

RESOLVED – That the work so far towards completing the 2021/22 Audit and Assurance plan and updates on the Mid Kent Audit Partnership be noted. 

To consider and decide on the recommendations set out in the associated report. 

Claudette Valmond, Interim Head of Legal Partnership and Interim Monitoring Officer introduced the report as set out in the agenda.

In addition, there was a correction to Appendix H (paragraph 6.3). This currently stated that “all types of debts and credits not exceeding £50,000 may be written off by the S151 Officer”.  This figure should be £250,000.

Discussion and questions from Members included the following:

-       The writing off of debt was a professional judgement undertaken by the Council and should not be confused with the Council’s forecast deficit.

-       The writing off of debts occurred when all other avenues to settle had been exhausted.  No organisation should leave such debts on its books.  This was normal accountancy procedure. 

-       It was confirmed that TWBC had no external debt.

-       It was further confirmed that write offs were subject to scrutiny by the external auditors.

-       With reference to Appendix F, it was questioned as to whether motions had exceeded 250 words in the past.  It was unclear as to why the amendment was necessary.

-       The proposed amendment for motions to not exceed 250 words would be under ‘normal’ circumstances. 

-       Whilst there might not be a perceived need to restrict the number of words now, it would cover any instances that may arise in the future.

-       The inclusion of the word ‘normally’ was added so that if there was a legitimate reason for a motion longer than 250 words, it would be allowed.

-       Appendix J referred to non-committee Members and members of the public.  It did not apply to committee Members who would have to be physically present at a meeting in order to be considered ‘in attendance’.

-       There was further concern that the limit on words and the possibility of allowing longer motions had the potential for the differing political parties to ‘throw out’ motions.  The assertion of power by one political party to the detriment of another political party.

-       There was doubt expressed that the use of ‘gerrymandering’ had taken place at the Council.  In any case the Mayor was in place and would be able to act in such circumstances. 

A recorded vote was requested:

Cllr Allen – For

Cllr Backhouse – For

Cllr Britcher-Allan – For

Cllr Chapelard – Abstain

Cllr Hamilton – For

Cllr Rands – Abstain

Cllr Simmons – For

For – 5

Against – 0

Abstain – 2

The motion was carried.

RESOLVED –

1.    That the amendments to the Constitution as set out in Appendices A-J of this report be approved.

2.    That the Head of Legal Partnership and Monitoring Officer be authorised to make all other necessary and consequential changes to the Constitution to give effect to these recommendations.

3.    That the proposed arrangements (if adopted) to hybrid Council meetings referred to in Appendix J of this report be kept under review by the Monitoring Officer, and the Monitoring Officer be authorised to make all other necessary and consequential changes to these provisions.

To consider and decide on the recommendations  set out in the associated report. 

Claudette Valmond, Interim Head of Legal Partnership and Interim Monitoring Officer introduced the report as set out in the agenda.

RESOLVED - that the proposed minor changes to the Constitution as set out at Appendices A to G to the report be noted.

To consider the Committee’s Future Work Programme.

The Committee’s work programme was presented for members’ information.  

It was noted that the Audit and Governance Committee Annual Report was not on the agenda for this meeting.  This was an oversight.  The report had been completed and it was agreed it would be circulated to Members for comment in due course.   

RESOLVED – That the Future Work Programme as at 23 November 2021 be noted.

To consider any other items which the Chairman decides are urgent, for reasons to be stated, in accordance with Section 100B (4) of the Local Government Act 1972.

There was no urgent business for consideration.

To note the date of the next scheduled meeting is Tuesday 22 March 2022. 

The next meeting of the Audit and Governance Committee was scheduled for Tuesday 22 March 2022.